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	<title>Comments on: Months Passed</title>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://quidsit.com/?p=768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1104</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quidsit.com/?p=768#comment-1104</guid>
		<description>Darn! I can tell you&#039;ve already heard the joke. Well of course with your scholastic background, you would have. 

I&#039;m glad that the theological argument brought you back into the Christian fold. 

I simply have never had a day that I didn&#039;t believe in God, and as a consequence, many of the arguments are only of vague interest to me.  Mind you, I&#039;ve wrestled a lot with the nature of God and God&#039;s relationship to created reality and to man. But never any doubts about the existence of God. For me it&#039;s always been a kind of intuitive thing mixed with rationality and emotion.  Not simply a cognitive argument. 

Well, I like to say something interesting when I post here.

So a couple of months ago we moved into a neighborhood of Orthodox Jews. 

So the other day I&#039;m at the bookstore, and I ask these guys if they would mind explaining to a garden-variety Texas goy the difference between Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Judaism. 

One of these guys (who turned out to be an important rabbi in town) had a sense of humor. He tried to explain to me that all these guys I see standing around and walking down the street wearing black hats are Amish. 

But the upshot was that the Orthodox Jews (who are all political and economic conservatives, I&#039;m happy to report) believe that they are the real deal. The authentic article. The historically, existentially, true, 100% sound Judaism. They believe that the Conservative and Reform groups are just people who are dismissibly finding their way out of Judaism. 

&quot;When they become Reform, then they might as well get baptized,&quot; one said contemptuously.  

&quot;Geez,&quot; I said, &quot;Is it really that bad? You mean they become messianic Jews or something?&quot;

&quot;No, no!! They just go to become Baptists or Catholics or something. They just want to assimilate.&quot;

&quot;Whew! I didn&#039;t realize it was that bad.&quot;

Well, the thing is, I understood they had a good argument. At the same time, naturally I don&#039;t see anything wrong with people wanting to assimilate into American life, nor do I see anything wrong with people who want to become a Baptist or a Catholic or a Christian generally. 

What I was struck by was that their situation did not seem unlike ours in some respects. As an outsider I see Judaism as a continuum.  Some being loyal to Orthodox Judaism, and some wanting to be Conservative or Reform. And I see all of these views of Judaism as being legitimate with arguments that can be made for their side. 

And I realize this is much the way I see Christianity. A Christian continuumn that draws different people in different ways, at different times. Good arguments can be made on all sides.

Anyway, I thought it was a mildly interesting and instructive conversation.  (And I promise you, these guys ain&#039;t Amish.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darn! I can tell you&#8217;ve already heard the joke. Well of course with your scholastic background, you would have. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad that the theological argument brought you back into the Christian fold. </p>
<p>I simply have never had a day that I didn&#8217;t believe in God, and as a consequence, many of the arguments are only of vague interest to me.  Mind you, I&#8217;ve wrestled a lot with the nature of God and God&#8217;s relationship to created reality and to man. But never any doubts about the existence of God. For me it&#8217;s always been a kind of intuitive thing mixed with rationality and emotion.  Not simply a cognitive argument. </p>
<p>Well, I like to say something interesting when I post here.</p>
<p>So a couple of months ago we moved into a neighborhood of Orthodox Jews. </p>
<p>So the other day I&#8217;m at the bookstore, and I ask these guys if they would mind explaining to a garden-variety Texas goy the difference between Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Judaism. </p>
<p>One of these guys (who turned out to be an important rabbi in town) had a sense of humor. He tried to explain to me that all these guys I see standing around and walking down the street wearing black hats are Amish. </p>
<p>But the upshot was that the Orthodox Jews (who are all political and economic conservatives, I&#8217;m happy to report) believe that they are the real deal. The authentic article. The historically, existentially, true, 100% sound Judaism. They believe that the Conservative and Reform groups are just people who are dismissibly finding their way out of Judaism. </p>
<p>&#8220;When they become Reform, then they might as well get baptized,&#8221; one said contemptuously.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Geez,&#8221; I said, &#8220;Is it really that bad? You mean they become messianic Jews or something?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No, no!! They just go to become Baptists or Catholics or something. They just want to assimilate.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Whew! I didn&#8217;t realize it was that bad.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, the thing is, I understood they had a good argument. At the same time, naturally I don&#8217;t see anything wrong with people wanting to assimilate into American life, nor do I see anything wrong with people who want to become a Baptist or a Catholic or a Christian generally. </p>
<p>What I was struck by was that their situation did not seem unlike ours in some respects. As an outsider I see Judaism as a continuum.  Some being loyal to Orthodox Judaism, and some wanting to be Conservative or Reform. And I see all of these views of Judaism as being legitimate with arguments that can be made for their side. </p>
<p>And I realize this is much the way I see Christianity. A Christian continuumn that draws different people in different ways, at different times. Good arguments can be made on all sides.</p>
<p>Anyway, I thought it was a mildly interesting and instructive conversation.  (And I promise you, these guys ain&#8217;t Amish.)</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Miller</title>
		<link>http://quidsit.com/?p=768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1103</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quidsit.com/?p=768#comment-1103</guid>
		<description>Great hearing from you again, Greg! And I appreciate your comments.

You know, you&#039;ve touched upon something that was &lt;i&gt;absolutely instrumental&lt;/i&gt; in me coming to absolutely no doubt about the existence of God: infinite regress. If we posit that I have a cause (and that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but simply changes forms, meaning all energy remains consistent), then what comes before me must also have a cause, and so on. So, if we trace causes back to something like, say, the Big Bang (from which all energy enters the universe), it absolutely must hold that those elements came fort hfrom an unmoved mover having no cause. Hence the problem with the &quot;turtles all the way down&quot; being resolved in one supreme, unbegotten being we call &quot;God.&quot;

I thought I was pretty smart, till I realized other people had come to the same conclusion. Yeah, they were all Christians, and they&#039;d been dead for 1,000 years or more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great hearing from you again, Greg! And I appreciate your comments.</p>
<p>You know, you&#8217;ve touched upon something that was <i>absolutely instrumental</i> in me coming to absolutely no doubt about the existence of God: infinite regress. If we posit that I have a cause (and that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but simply changes forms, meaning all energy remains consistent), then what comes before me must also have a cause, and so on. So, if we trace causes back to something like, say, the Big Bang (from which all energy enters the universe), it absolutely must hold that those elements came fort hfrom an unmoved mover having no cause. Hence the problem with the &#8220;turtles all the way down&#8221; being resolved in one supreme, unbegotten being we call &#8220;God.&#8221;</p>
<p>I thought I was pretty smart, till I realized other people had come to the same conclusion. Yeah, they were all Christians, and they&#8217;d been dead for 1,000 years or more.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://quidsit.com/?p=768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1102</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Josh, let me add my congratulations to those of Fr. Cory. 

As you are now a deacon, I think it is time for me to disclose a Protestant&#039;s secret that we have kept confined from public view for a long time.

Long ago we learned the secret that clears up all the issues surrounding theodicy. 

Even though I may be condemned, I feel that as a deacon you should be privy to this  secret as well. It comes from Greek philosophy, so you&#039;ll be right at home.

Dimitri: If Atlas holds up the world, what holds up Atlas?

Tasso: Atlas stands on the back of a turtle.

Dimitri: But what does the turtle stand on?

Tasso: Another turtle.

Dimitri: And what does that turtle stand on?

Tasso: My dear Dimitri, it&#039;s turtles all the way down!!!

So there you have it, Josh. All along, it was all those damned turtles!

(Make sure you use this knowledge wisely.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, let me add my congratulations to those of Fr. Cory. </p>
<p>As you are now a deacon, I think it is time for me to disclose a Protestant&#8217;s secret that we have kept confined from public view for a long time.</p>
<p>Long ago we learned the secret that clears up all the issues surrounding theodicy. </p>
<p>Even though I may be condemned, I feel that as a deacon you should be privy to this  secret as well. It comes from Greek philosophy, so you&#8217;ll be right at home.</p>
<p>Dimitri: If Atlas holds up the world, what holds up Atlas?</p>
<p>Tasso: Atlas stands on the back of a turtle.</p>
<p>Dimitri: But what does the turtle stand on?</p>
<p>Tasso: Another turtle.</p>
<p>Dimitri: And what does that turtle stand on?</p>
<p>Tasso: My dear Dimitri, it&#8217;s turtles all the way down!!!</p>
<p>So there you have it, Josh. All along, it was all those damned turtles!</p>
<p>(Make sure you use this knowledge wisely.)</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Cory Sticha</title>
		<link>http://quidsit.com/?p=768&#038;cpage=1#comment-1096</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Cory Sticha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quidsit.com/?p=768#comment-1096</guid>
		<description>Congratulations, Deacon Josh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations, Deacon Josh!</p>
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